Perhaps he should be classified as undead?
Feb. 1st, 2004 04:40 pm(23:01:38) Sniffnoy: (away)
(23:01:38) JoshuaZelinsky : I'm dead! IM me for details!
(23:01:41) Sniffnoy: So, how did you die?
[The next day]
(16:16:56) JoshuaZelinsky: so you wanted to know how i died?
(16:17:04) Sniffnoy: yah
(16:17:22) JoshuaZelinsky: well apparently, I was very mistaken. see I was never alive
(16:17:32) Sniffnoy: oh
(16:17:34) JoshuaZelinsky: possibly
(16:17:41) Sniffnoy: well then you're not really dead, are you?
(16:18:02) JoshuaZelinsky: well, accordling to Jewish law I might be
(16:18:23) JoshuaZelinsky: see, I was born not breathing, and in ancient times it was so impossible to resucitate a non-breathing just born baby, that it was ruled impossible. In which case, I'm dead.
(16:18:45) JoshuaZelinsky: which among other things might imply that I'm under no obligations whatsoever
(16:19:26) Sniffnoy: hehe
(16:19:37) JoshuaZelinsky: well maybe not
(16:19:44) JoshuaZelinsky: there are two issues with this:
(16:19:55) JoshuaZelinsky: a) the ruling probably changes subject to technology
(16:20:44) JoshuaZelinsky: b) there is a(common) opinion that dead people are subject to all obligations but just can't get them done. in which case I'm a dead person who can do everything
(16:21:12) JoshuaZelinsky: Tad thinks that the whole thing really has only two consequences:
(16:21:22) JoshuaZelinsky: 1) If someone kills me, a jewish court can't apply the death penalty. 2) If a jew is starving and has non-kosher food or me to eat, they should kill and eat me
(16:21:34) JoshuaZelinsky: he said that I should be carefull to keep a backpack of granola bars with me at all times in case he gets hungrY
(16:21:44) Sniffnoy: LOL
(16:21:56) Sniffnoy: but wait, I thought human meat wasn't kosher either?
(16:22:57) JoshuaZelinsky: nope! thats from a cool discussion in the talmud
(16:23:39) JoshuaZelinsky: technically we don't define things as kosher, we define certain things as not kosher. and it never says anywere in the torah that people aren't kosher
(16:24:05) JoshuaZelinsky: now, the rabbis made a rule that humans are to be treated as unkosher
(16:24:36) Sniffnoy: hey... wait... if you're dead... then shouldn't you be buried?
(16:24:36) JoshuaZelinsky: but given the choice between pig and corpse(me) everyone agrees you should eat the corpse since thats one rabbinically prohibited
(16:24:46) JoshuaZelinsky: uh yeah
(16:25:36) JoshuaZelinsky: actually when I informed the guy in charge of minyan here that I was no longer going to come, since he couldn't count me for the 10 anyways, he said that he would bury me if I didnt come
(16:25:47) Sniffnoy: LOL
(16:26:13) Sniffnoy: maybe if they buried you such that you could easily escape? :D
(16:27:03) JoshuaZelinsky: nopw
(16:27:27) JoshuaZelinsky: under jewish law burial needs to be at least 4.5 feet(approx)
(16:27:39) Sniffnoy: hm...
(16:27:58) Sniffnoy: well, if they just happened to bury you conveniently next to a staircase dug into the ground...
(16:28:48) JoshuaZelinsky: heh
(16:30:09) Sniffnoy: and... are there any requirements on the coffin that would make it hard to get out?
(16:32:17) JoshuaZelinsky: actually, the coffin is supposed to be fairly flimsy wood. in fact, there is actually some difficulty getting coffins to comply with both jewish law and health regulations. but I dont know much about this
(16:32:26) Sniffnoy: heh
(16:33:19) JoshuaZelinsky: but this is off topic
(16:33:27) JoshuaZelinsky: the cool is thing is that I'm dead
[various other stuff]
(16:39:40) JoshuaZelinsky: need to go to services now(well not need to since I'm dead, but I'm gonna go anyways). ttfn
(23:01:38) JoshuaZelinsky
(23:01:41) Sniffnoy: So, how did you die?
[The next day]
(16:16:56) JoshuaZelinsky: so you wanted to know how i died?
(16:17:04) Sniffnoy: yah
(16:17:22) JoshuaZelinsky: well apparently, I was very mistaken. see I was never alive
(16:17:32) Sniffnoy: oh
(16:17:34) JoshuaZelinsky: possibly
(16:17:41) Sniffnoy: well then you're not really dead, are you?
(16:18:02) JoshuaZelinsky: well, accordling to Jewish law I might be
(16:18:23) JoshuaZelinsky: see, I was born not breathing, and in ancient times it was so impossible to resucitate a non-breathing just born baby, that it was ruled impossible. In which case, I'm dead.
(16:18:45) JoshuaZelinsky: which among other things might imply that I'm under no obligations whatsoever
(16:19:26) Sniffnoy: hehe
(16:19:37) JoshuaZelinsky: well maybe not
(16:19:44) JoshuaZelinsky: there are two issues with this:
(16:19:55) JoshuaZelinsky: a) the ruling probably changes subject to technology
(16:20:44) JoshuaZelinsky: b) there is a(common) opinion that dead people are subject to all obligations but just can't get them done. in which case I'm a dead person who can do everything
(16:21:12) JoshuaZelinsky: Tad thinks that the whole thing really has only two consequences:
(16:21:22) JoshuaZelinsky: 1) If someone kills me, a jewish court can't apply the death penalty. 2) If a jew is starving and has non-kosher food or me to eat, they should kill and eat me
(16:21:34) JoshuaZelinsky: he said that I should be carefull to keep a backpack of granola bars with me at all times in case he gets hungrY
(16:21:44) Sniffnoy: LOL
(16:21:56) Sniffnoy: but wait, I thought human meat wasn't kosher either?
(16:22:57) JoshuaZelinsky: nope! thats from a cool discussion in the talmud
(16:23:39) JoshuaZelinsky: technically we don't define things as kosher, we define certain things as not kosher. and it never says anywere in the torah that people aren't kosher
(16:24:05) JoshuaZelinsky: now, the rabbis made a rule that humans are to be treated as unkosher
(16:24:36) Sniffnoy: hey... wait... if you're dead... then shouldn't you be buried?
(16:24:36) JoshuaZelinsky: but given the choice between pig and corpse(me) everyone agrees you should eat the corpse since thats one rabbinically prohibited
(16:24:46) JoshuaZelinsky: uh yeah
(16:25:36) JoshuaZelinsky: actually when I informed the guy in charge of minyan here that I was no longer going to come, since he couldn't count me for the 10 anyways, he said that he would bury me if I didnt come
(16:25:47) Sniffnoy: LOL
(16:26:13) Sniffnoy: maybe if they buried you such that you could easily escape? :D
(16:27:03) JoshuaZelinsky: nopw
(16:27:27) JoshuaZelinsky: under jewish law burial needs to be at least 4.5 feet(approx)
(16:27:39) Sniffnoy: hm...
(16:27:58) Sniffnoy: well, if they just happened to bury you conveniently next to a staircase dug into the ground...
(16:28:48) JoshuaZelinsky: heh
(16:30:09) Sniffnoy: and... are there any requirements on the coffin that would make it hard to get out?
(16:32:17) JoshuaZelinsky: actually, the coffin is supposed to be fairly flimsy wood. in fact, there is actually some difficulty getting coffins to comply with both jewish law and health regulations. but I dont know much about this
(16:32:26) Sniffnoy: heh
(16:33:19) JoshuaZelinsky: but this is off topic
(16:33:27) JoshuaZelinsky: the cool is thing is that I'm dead
[various other stuff]
(16:39:40) JoshuaZelinsky: need to go to services now(well not need to since I'm dead, but I'm gonna go anyways). ttfn
