How not to play AGoT
Jul. 6th, 2008 03:10 pmJosh tried to start an Illuminati game last night, but I was able to convince people to play AGoT instead. So we had Will as Stark, Gabby as Baratheon, Watson as Tyrell, Josh as Lannister, and me as Greyjoy.
I pointed out that Lannister was known to be a bit weak without the ports rule (which we weren't using as that would require both remembering how ports work, and knowing at all where they go), and is supposed to have to play a bit more diplomatically. So I was a bit surprised when Josh was kind of annoyed that he got dealt them.
Gabby kept interrupting the rules explanation with story points which were often spoilers; however, she said so many that nobody actually remembered any, except for one which was misremembered.
Watson, on the other hand, just kept interrupting the rules explanation with inane questions.
The explanation ended up taking about an hour, and by the time the game started we were all kind of annoyed at Watson.
Since it was now rather later than we had wanted to start, Josh decided to make an aggressive start, moving directly into Searoad Marches. He talked to me and suggested I support him; I agreed. In response, Watson... vacated Highgarden?! We all said things like, "Well, if he wants to make a stupid move, we have to let him" - none but me have played before but it should be pretty obvious why this is stupid - but Watson didn't change it.
He claimed, after things started going badly for him, that this is "a standard Diplomacy opening" and that he wouldn't have done it had he remembered that orders aren't resolved simultaneously. I have to say, I don't really see how this is relevant.
Another early stupid move by him was spending *all* his 5 power tokens on taking the messenger raven. It screwed up other people's bids for it, certainly, but having no power tokens is not a good thing. (Luckily, the Wildlings never attacked all game, though they did eventually build up to a full strength of 12.)
Well, with me having a ship in the Sunset Sea, Josh suggested to me I actually take Highgarden; I had intended to take Moat Cailin before it became a Stark stronghold, but I thought this would be good, and I did. This was turn 2, IIRC.
Of course, it wasn't really that smart, as there was no way I could actually *hold* Highgarden, and the next turn I retreated. Literally retreated, as Josh, low on power tokens, suggested that he could attack me, play Jaime, and get 2 power tokens that way, and I thought this was reasonable.
Now would be a good time to mention that I forgot one thing during the rules explanation: Routed units. I entirely forgot about routed units. Usually this doesn't come up too often; but in this game, it would have come up a lot. When Josh finally noticed this in the penultimate turn or so, we decided to just keep playing as we had.
(Minor rules point I got wrong: Attacking neutral armies does count as an "attack" for the "no doing two attacks with one march order" rule, despite not counting as a battle in other ways.
Minor rules point I left out: You can support a person to help them defeat a neutral army, but you cannot support the neutral army against them.
Minor rules point that we'd have little way of knowing but I just looked up in the FAQ: Melisandre's ability is wasted if they only have 1 house card left. The question came up and we decided the other way, but it ended up not being relevant as Melisandre wasn't used, IIRC.)
Anyway. Back to the 3rd turn. I had placed a Support order in the Sunset sea in case Highgarden was attacked; but once I agreed with Josh about how he would attack me, I should have changed this, as I was going to lose deliberately. Namely, to a march order, so I could take Bay of Ice before Stark could muster there. All this Highgarden business had screwed up my plans to take Bay of Ice.
Next turn, what do you know, there was a mustering, and Stark got Bay of Ice.
Basically, over the next few turns: Josh and Gabby ganged up on Watson, with my support, with Josh moving basically southward and Gabby expanding greatly. Will and I had standoffs at Moat Cailin and the Bay of Ice, sometimes being friendly and making plans together, sometimes planning to attack but judging the other too well defended, but neither ever actually attacking the other. Gabby had 5 points, I had 3, Stark had probably about 3, Josh had expanded but still was low on score, and Watson's few remaining units were being chased around the South (due to our having forgotten about routed units), where he also attacked people and was generally annoying.
The following exchange occurred several times throughout the game:
Watson: The reason I'm losing is because I forgot this wasn't Diplomacy.
Josh: Actually, I'm pretty sure the reason you're losing is because you're annoying everyone.
I'd say Josh was right. In one case, near the end of the game, Watson attacked Gabby at a major disadvantage, when he could actually do something - not much, but something - to consolidate his position. Why? Apparently because he had threatened to earlier.
Watson: It's called making threats credible, Josh.
Josh: You know what this is like, Watson? This is like saying, Harry, if you don't give me your wallet, I'm going to poke you! [He pokes me.] I'll poke you! [He continues like this for some time.]
Finally, deciding taking either Moat Cailin or Bay of Ice was just too hard, I decided to make serious the southern expansion I had started last turn with my moving into Riverrun (which Josh didn't like, but couldn't exactly do much about). This may not all have been the same turn, but I fortified Riverrun, took Harrenhal, and took Redwyne Straits, stranding one of Watson's guys on the Arbor (and used this to help even more with the gang-up-on-Watson effort). Shortly after, Baratheon destroyed the last of the Tyrell fleet.
But by then people were starting to get pretty afraid of Gabby. It was resolved that Josh would take Oldtown from her - yes, she had Oldtown! I had planned to attack Crackclaw Point, as I had 5 points by now and wanted to make my own bid for the win, but decided to instead support Will's attack there.
The standoff at Moat Cailin continued. I tried to think about how I could get my final two points - with ships in Redwyne Straits I had tons of mobility. Gabby was beaten back and was generally considered not a threat anymore. Taking Crackclaw Point was out of the question, and I probably didn't have enough strength in Riverrun to take Lannisport (Josh still controlled the Golden Sound).
Josh: Are you going to try to take Highgarden?
Me: I don't have to try to take Highgarden.
But eventually my opportunity appeared - Highgarden vacant, Josh's troops in Oldtown, and nobody in the Dornish Marches who could support them. I could move my guys off of Greywater Watch, send one to Highgarden, and send the rest to Oldtown, where with support in my ships, and Josh having nothing higher than a 0 in hand while I still held my 3, I would win easily.
But I moved second that turn, and Gabby, who went first (and had held the Iron Throne throughout the game) decided to attack Watson in the Reach. If he did that, he might retreat to Highgarden (he revealed later that he wouldn't have as Josh told him not to), making my move illegal. However, I was able to convince her that taking Sunspear was a better move, and with my next move I carried out my plan - which apparently nobody anticipated - and won.
Josh, at some earlier point: You know, if we were responsible counselors, we probably would have told you to go to bed by now.
Josh pointed out afterward that Rebecca is going to kill him for keeping one of her students up so late. Though this is Gabby so she probably would have anyway.
Actually today a student - Yung-Soo, is that how his name is spelled? - asked to borrow it; I pointed out, you know, it's Sunday, you should be working on your problem set. He said he had been working Friday and Saturday, and so almost done with it. I said, it's Sunday, finish your problem set, then you can play - and find other people who are done to play with. I figure if he really was working Friday and Saturday he can play for some hours Sunday afternoon. But afterwards I suppose I'll try to find more work for him.
In unrelated news, running that BU Virus Scan thing - or perhaps its failing to complete - has had the odd side effect of changing my computer's login screen to the type-in-your-username one rather than the click-your-username one, and the shutdown menu to a drop-down menu rather than a list of boxes. Huh. I didn't even know you could set that.
-Harry
I pointed out that Lannister was known to be a bit weak without the ports rule (which we weren't using as that would require both remembering how ports work, and knowing at all where they go), and is supposed to have to play a bit more diplomatically. So I was a bit surprised when Josh was kind of annoyed that he got dealt them.
Gabby kept interrupting the rules explanation with story points which were often spoilers; however, she said so many that nobody actually remembered any, except for one which was misremembered.
Watson, on the other hand, just kept interrupting the rules explanation with inane questions.
The explanation ended up taking about an hour, and by the time the game started we were all kind of annoyed at Watson.
Since it was now rather later than we had wanted to start, Josh decided to make an aggressive start, moving directly into Searoad Marches. He talked to me and suggested I support him; I agreed. In response, Watson... vacated Highgarden?! We all said things like, "Well, if he wants to make a stupid move, we have to let him" - none but me have played before but it should be pretty obvious why this is stupid - but Watson didn't change it.
He claimed, after things started going badly for him, that this is "a standard Diplomacy opening" and that he wouldn't have done it had he remembered that orders aren't resolved simultaneously. I have to say, I don't really see how this is relevant.
Another early stupid move by him was spending *all* his 5 power tokens on taking the messenger raven. It screwed up other people's bids for it, certainly, but having no power tokens is not a good thing. (Luckily, the Wildlings never attacked all game, though they did eventually build up to a full strength of 12.)
Well, with me having a ship in the Sunset Sea, Josh suggested to me I actually take Highgarden; I had intended to take Moat Cailin before it became a Stark stronghold, but I thought this would be good, and I did. This was turn 2, IIRC.
Of course, it wasn't really that smart, as there was no way I could actually *hold* Highgarden, and the next turn I retreated. Literally retreated, as Josh, low on power tokens, suggested that he could attack me, play Jaime, and get 2 power tokens that way, and I thought this was reasonable.
Now would be a good time to mention that I forgot one thing during the rules explanation: Routed units. I entirely forgot about routed units. Usually this doesn't come up too often; but in this game, it would have come up a lot. When Josh finally noticed this in the penultimate turn or so, we decided to just keep playing as we had.
(Minor rules point I got wrong: Attacking neutral armies does count as an "attack" for the "no doing two attacks with one march order" rule, despite not counting as a battle in other ways.
Minor rules point I left out: You can support a person to help them defeat a neutral army, but you cannot support the neutral army against them.
Minor rules point that we'd have little way of knowing but I just looked up in the FAQ: Melisandre's ability is wasted if they only have 1 house card left. The question came up and we decided the other way, but it ended up not being relevant as Melisandre wasn't used, IIRC.)
Anyway. Back to the 3rd turn. I had placed a Support order in the Sunset sea in case Highgarden was attacked; but once I agreed with Josh about how he would attack me, I should have changed this, as I was going to lose deliberately. Namely, to a march order, so I could take Bay of Ice before Stark could muster there. All this Highgarden business had screwed up my plans to take Bay of Ice.
Next turn, what do you know, there was a mustering, and Stark got Bay of Ice.
Basically, over the next few turns: Josh and Gabby ganged up on Watson, with my support, with Josh moving basically southward and Gabby expanding greatly. Will and I had standoffs at Moat Cailin and the Bay of Ice, sometimes being friendly and making plans together, sometimes planning to attack but judging the other too well defended, but neither ever actually attacking the other. Gabby had 5 points, I had 3, Stark had probably about 3, Josh had expanded but still was low on score, and Watson's few remaining units were being chased around the South (due to our having forgotten about routed units), where he also attacked people and was generally annoying.
The following exchange occurred several times throughout the game:
Watson: The reason I'm losing is because I forgot this wasn't Diplomacy.
Josh: Actually, I'm pretty sure the reason you're losing is because you're annoying everyone.
I'd say Josh was right. In one case, near the end of the game, Watson attacked Gabby at a major disadvantage, when he could actually do something - not much, but something - to consolidate his position. Why? Apparently because he had threatened to earlier.
Watson: It's called making threats credible, Josh.
Josh: You know what this is like, Watson? This is like saying, Harry, if you don't give me your wallet, I'm going to poke you! [He pokes me.] I'll poke you! [He continues like this for some time.]
Finally, deciding taking either Moat Cailin or Bay of Ice was just too hard, I decided to make serious the southern expansion I had started last turn with my moving into Riverrun (which Josh didn't like, but couldn't exactly do much about). This may not all have been the same turn, but I fortified Riverrun, took Harrenhal, and took Redwyne Straits, stranding one of Watson's guys on the Arbor (and used this to help even more with the gang-up-on-Watson effort). Shortly after, Baratheon destroyed the last of the Tyrell fleet.
But by then people were starting to get pretty afraid of Gabby. It was resolved that Josh would take Oldtown from her - yes, she had Oldtown! I had planned to attack Crackclaw Point, as I had 5 points by now and wanted to make my own bid for the win, but decided to instead support Will's attack there.
The standoff at Moat Cailin continued. I tried to think about how I could get my final two points - with ships in Redwyne Straits I had tons of mobility. Gabby was beaten back and was generally considered not a threat anymore. Taking Crackclaw Point was out of the question, and I probably didn't have enough strength in Riverrun to take Lannisport (Josh still controlled the Golden Sound).
Josh: Are you going to try to take Highgarden?
Me: I don't have to try to take Highgarden.
But eventually my opportunity appeared - Highgarden vacant, Josh's troops in Oldtown, and nobody in the Dornish Marches who could support them. I could move my guys off of Greywater Watch, send one to Highgarden, and send the rest to Oldtown, where with support in my ships, and Josh having nothing higher than a 0 in hand while I still held my 3, I would win easily.
But I moved second that turn, and Gabby, who went first (and had held the Iron Throne throughout the game) decided to attack Watson in the Reach. If he did that, he might retreat to Highgarden (he revealed later that he wouldn't have as Josh told him not to), making my move illegal. However, I was able to convince her that taking Sunspear was a better move, and with my next move I carried out my plan - which apparently nobody anticipated - and won.
Josh, at some earlier point: You know, if we were responsible counselors, we probably would have told you to go to bed by now.
Josh pointed out afterward that Rebecca is going to kill him for keeping one of her students up so late. Though this is Gabby so she probably would have anyway.
Actually today a student - Yung-Soo, is that how his name is spelled? - asked to borrow it; I pointed out, you know, it's Sunday, you should be working on your problem set. He said he had been working Friday and Saturday, and so almost done with it. I said, it's Sunday, finish your problem set, then you can play - and find other people who are done to play with. I figure if he really was working Friday and Saturday he can play for some hours Sunday afternoon. But afterwards I suppose I'll try to find more work for him.
In unrelated news, running that BU Virus Scan thing - or perhaps its failing to complete - has had the odd side effect of changing my computer's login screen to the type-in-your-username one rather than the click-your-username one, and the shutdown menu to a drop-down menu rather than a list of boxes. Huh. I didn't even know you could set that.
-Harry
